The Importance of Hank Pym

ant-manRich Johnston over at Bleeding Cool has reposted Age of Ultron writer Brian Bendis’ breakdown of what would happend to the Marvel Universe if Hank Pym was killed before creating Ultron. The break down is both interesting and confusing reading as many events and instances cause ripple effects that change or negate other events in the Marvel 616 timeline. Basically if you thought Hank Pym wasn’t important then you are just plain wrong!

A WARNING: This is going to get very confusing, very fast! So if you can’t handle confusing nature of the Marvel Universe’s particular breed of timeline which is a mixture of Plastic Time and Alternate/Multiverse theory then move along. There’s nothing to see here.

Also I speculate A LOT after the breakdown so take everything with a big pinch of salt.

Full breakdown after the jump!

Here’s the full list:

i will share this with you… this was the doc created to reverse Engineer the Marvel universe based on the death of Hank pym…

get ready to get dizzy 🙂

EVENTS POTENTIALLY UNDONE BY HANK PYM’S DEATH (and resulting ripple effects)

1 – Creation of Ultron

A – No Vision

1 – No marriage to Scarlet Witch/Immortus plan to prevent her from breeding possibly derailed

2 – No birth of children (Speed & Wiccan of Young Avengers)

3      – No undoing of their children, which Immortus engineered in part to ensure Scarlet Witch’s mental instability and thus pliability

a – Mephisto and Master Pandemonium affected

4      – No Leonia, NJ-based events (Vision and Scarlet Witch maxi-series)

a – No opportunity for Crystal to meet and have affair with Norman Webster

1 – No divorce from Quicksilver

5      – No defeating Salem’s Seven

a – they conquer the witch town of New Salem, and we have an entire town of evil black mages working against humanity

6      – Does not form West Coast Avengers

7      – No Scarlet Witch insanity

a – No Disassembled deaths of Ant-Man/Lang, Jack of Hearts, Vision destruction

b – No M/M-Day/Decimation

1-     Hundreds of X-Men/mutant stories undone

8      – Grim Reaper’s Lethal Legion potentially defeat and slay Avengers (Captain America, Black Panther, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch)

1-       Thousands of ripple effects from those deaths

2-     Grim Reaper won’t later feel the need to revive his “dead” brother Wonder Man as a zombie, which means Wonder Man presumably remains dormant

9 – Vision not present as one of the Dead Avengers who save the living Avengers during the Chaos War.

B – No Crimson Cowl

1 – No Jarvis betrayal

C – No Jocasta

1 – Lots of battles go that bit worse without her (without her neutralizing the internal defenses, Beast doesn’t manage to get inside Red Ronin during his rampage, robot destroys the Long Island expressway during rush hour., she was instrumental in team’s first defeat of Taskmaster, Evolutionary War finale, etc.)

D – No Alkhema

1 – No Bio-Synthezoids, War Toys, Robos

2 – Mockingbird not abducted by Skrulls, or at least not in the same way (her abduction by Alkhema and the team’s battle with Alkie was the cover for the Skrulls’ abduction of Mockingbird)

E – No slaughter in Slorenia

1 – No giant Bloodwraith

F – No sentient Iron Man armor

1 – Blacklash doesn’t die

G – No Victor Mancha

1 – Gertrude Yorkes doesn’t die

H – No role in Annihilation: Conquest

1 – Star-Lord’s Guardians of the Galaxy don’t form

2 – Deathcry doesn’t die

3 – Spaceknights not taken over by Phalanx

4 – No further devastation of Kree Empire

5 – Moondragon doesn’t die

a – Phylla-Vell does not become Martyr

6 – Second major war that causes the Fault doesn’t happen – possibly negating the result of War of Kings and the Cancerverse’s attempted infestation of the universe, further negating Thanos’ resurrection and Nova (Rider) and Star-Lord’s sacrifice

I – No marriage to Jocasta

J – No possession of the Intelligencia’s inert Spaceknight body

K – No revival of Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch, after Mad Thinker’s usage of him against the FF

1 – Spitfire would not have been rejuvenated without a second dose of Human Torch blood

A – Spitfire’s absence may have affected various missions by the New Invaders and MI-13

2 – Marriage to Janet Van Dyne

A – Wasp’s chauffeur Charles Matthews never fired (events leading to same in Marvel Feature wouldn’t have happened without Hank), and Charles possibly never exposed as the Whirlwind/David Cannon (it was Pym who finally figured it out after years of Charles’ double identity going unsuspected by Hank, Jan and all the other Avengers). More than once, Whirlwind (David Cannon) has captured or defeated the Wasp, only to have Hank Pym arrive to save her or team up with her. Without Hank, it’s likely Wasp might not have escaped one of Whirlwind’s attempts.

3 – Bill Foster might have become Black Goliath sooner

A – Become a more confident, A-list hero without being in Hank Pym’s shadow

4 – Equipment being available for Scott Lang to steal to become Ant-Man and rescue surgeon to save his daughter’s life (Even if he still broke into Pym’s old lab and became Ant-Man, he’d have died during his first mission if Pym hadn’t been secretly tagging along and protected him a few times.)

A – Cassie dies

1 – No Stature

B – Surgeon Lang rescued, Erica Sondheim, remains imprisoned by her captor

1 – Not available to later implant bio-tech chip that restored crippled Tony Stark, and later saved his life when it went wrong – without her, Stark either remains crippled or dies

5 – Becoming Yellowjacket

A – Rita de Mara does not become Yellowjacket

1 – Is not present in Evolutionary War finale

2 – Is not present in any Guardians of the Galaxy story

3 – No death during the Crossing

4 – Is not present in Chaos War to help save Avengers, others

6 – Joining Defenders (as YJ)

A-     does not rescue captured Defenders Dr. Strange, Valkyrie and Hulk from the Squadron Sinister

7 – Mental breakdown/imprisonment/divorce from Janet Van Dyne

A – No court-martial

B – Jan doesn’t have affair with Tony Stark/Iron Man while Hank was imprisoned

C – Jan doesn’t become the chastened Avengers leader later on (significantly affecting Masters of Evil’s siege of Mansion and Kang Dynasty, amongst others) OR conversely, Hank’s death forces this to happen much earlier

8 – Preventing Egghead’s schemes

A – Egghead would have forced his niece Trish Starr into his robot, destroying her individuality and body.

9 – Death of Egghead

A – Egghead remains with Intelligencia, possibly eliminating MODOK’s involvement – no Red Hulk/She-Hulk, World War Hulks, Hulked-Out Heroes

10 – Joining West Coast Avengers (which wouldn’t exist without Vision)

A – No participation in Time-Lost Saga – possibly leaving WCA stranded in the past

11 – No creation of MODAM (AIM scientists were unable to advance SODAM’s development without Pym’s help.)

A – The Cosmic Cube disaster during “Taking AIM” might have been worse, with MODOK being reactivated sooner

B – No Number None (the baby MODOK who claims his mother is MODAM)

C – No SILENT, no HATE, and no Nextwave: Agents of HATE

1 – Undoing character development leading to a more independently confident Photon, a more bloodthirsty Elsa Bloodstone and the human-hating/zombie killing Machine Man

12 – No dimension-crossing experiments resulting in fugitive St. Looie’s hitman from being lost in “Otherwhere”

13 – Relationship with Firebird/Espirita

14 – Relationship with Tigra

A – As mentioned below, Tigra’s son would probably never be born, since the Skrull who fathered said son was posing as Pym

15 – Participation in stopping Vibro from destroying LA with earthquakes

16 – Participation in the Crossing

A – Jan not mutated, dies of injuries at hands of Iron Man

17 – Participation in Heroes Reborn

A – Counter-Earth (Franklin) native and Avengers janitor Ernest Sanger would never have become Mant, the size-changing leader of the Remnants

18 – Participation in Destiny War (Possible Immortus picked a different Pym from another era/reality, so things might well have still gone much as seen)

A – Doesn’t double cross both sides as Yellowjacket

B – Rick Jones does not get involved in final battle

C – Time-Keepers survive

1 – No final event prompting Lilandra to sponsor Maximum Security

a – Quasar does not absorb Ego

2 – Reality-616 destroyed by Time-Keepers

19 – Curing of Firestar’s radiation problem

A – Leading to earlier or worse cancer/death

20 – Pym not available to supervise treatment and containment of Jack of Hearts’ unstable physiology

21 – Replacement by Skrull(s)

A – Various Skrulls that replaced him not participate in Initiative/Camp Hammond

B – The Skrulls would have needed another highly placed superhuman genius to replace instead of Hank Pym.

C – No GI-Ant-Man suit for Eric O’Grady to steal

1 – O’Grady dies in Helicarrier crash, never becomes Ant-Man

D – No Skrull relationship with Tigra

1 – William Garson never born

22 – Dark Reign events

A – No Infinite Mansion

B – No Dark Reign-era Mighty Avengers

1 – Amadeus Cho/Vision Jonas/Stature’s membership negated

2 – Chthon victorious

C – Not named Scientist Supreme

23 – Instruction at Avengers Academy

A – Veil, Hazmat, Mettle – not receiving treatment for various conditions

NOTE: During She-Hulk’s encounter with the TVA (Time Variation Authority) it was established that if an individual was removed from the timestream, in some instances time would cope by using a suitable stand-in to fulfill the their role.  However, obviously more unique individuals or major events would be impacted greatly if the protagonist was removed. The early demise of Hank Pym and the impact his death has on any of the subsequent events listed above could be discounted as events still could have happened with a Pym-substitute.

It also got me thinking of this other piece of Bendis Timey Wimey from a couple of years ago in his Avengers book,

avengers timeline

This is all speculation from here on out:

This is basically the timeline map of the Modern Marvel Universe and the events that lead into the Ultron War that turns into the Age of Ultron. You get all the key post-Secret Invasion events listed here (apart from Avengers Vs X-Men which was thought up and brought forward to before Age of Ultron because Marvel wanted to sell it ASAP!). Post Ultron War or at least the second stage of it is a focal point in time as both Ultron and Kang the Conquerer’s forces battle it out endlessly, creating and destroying time. Beyond this point nothing is known because the nature of Kang and Ultron’s battle means that any and all futures are destroyed and/or used as fuel for their never ending battle. The only thing that can stop it is an outside force or factor coming in to resolve and/or change the nature of the conflict.

The death of past Hank Pym negates the creation of Ultron and as a result the Ultron War. However as Bendis says in his breakdown substitutes can and will step in to take the place of people who have been removed from the timeline prematurely. So it stands to reason that someone in the new timeline could be the substitue creator of Ultron or there could even be a substitute force of similar power to Ultron. Also if there is no Ultron to stand against Kang at the end of time, endlessly battling until some variation or outlying factor comes in and allows the future to finally happen. What is to stop Kang’s conquest of the future achieving its ultimate goal of taking control of all time and space? Basically Wolverine has screwed everyone over by killing Hank. If there is no substitute Ultron there is nothing to theoretically stand against Kang at the end point. Slowly his power will grow and spread back into the past until he controls all time (presumably killing all the past Kang’s and their attempts to control time in the process because….well….Kang). Ultron is needed to hold Kang at bay in the future until something comes along to change the nature of their battle and/or negate it to allow the future to happen.

The outside factor has to be Hank Pym.

He knows Ultron in and out as his creator and he has the knowledge to fight Kang across time. Hank Pym is the only one who can stop the Ultron War and Kang’s conquest and Wolverine killed him! It is also the reason why we haven’t seen a future Hank Pym in Age of Ultron because the first thing Ultron would do as part of his invasion plan is kill Pym because he poses the greatest threat to him. Wolverine and Sue Storm should have gone back in time and grabbed Hank bringing him to the future to solve the Ultron problem once and for all and presumably deal with Kang in the process. Instead they killed him before his prime so if they go back and grab him now he won’t have the knowledge and experience to stop Ultron.

Unless they go back and stop Wolverine from killing Hank then grab him at a further point in time but that could cause further ripple effects that could affect the eventual outcome of the Ultron War and the End Point!

Damnit Wolverine……




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